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Midnight Lost

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Joined: 18 May 2008
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re: Message from Zoeller on Juggernaut/Guardian

If you havn't frequinted the Class forums on the official website, this is what you missed in regards of those that feel the Juggernaut (and Guardian) are underpowered compared to other classes. Enjoy.


Hi guys,

There are many different subjects discussed in this thread and I would like to take the opportunity to give you some information on the topics at hand.

First off, we currently have no indication that any class needs a huge buff. Class balance is defined by the interaction between classes and changes we make to one class will, inevitably, move the balance towards or from other classes. Our data and testing currently indicates that the Juggernaut and Guardian AC could use some buffing up in two areas where we see them underperforming against our expectations.

Here are some of the things we're planning to roll out in the short term specifically regarding Sith Warriors and Jedi Knights :

  • Mobility/Anti Kiting (PvP) – We agree with the sentiment voiced by the community that some Guardians and Juggernauts have to work harder than other classes to stay within effective combat range, putting them at a disadvantage. We intend to address this in an upcoming patch where, as a first step, Force Push will clear the cooldown of Force Leap, granting for more reliable in combat pursuit capabilities to the Advanced Class. Further changes will be made if necessary.

  • DPS spec survivability (PvP and PvE) – The DPS specs on Guardian and Juggernaut are performing to our expectations when it comes to the ability to create damage, especially of the burst variety. However their survivability is lagging behind our expectations, especially in the later game, and we are going to start addressing that particular issue in an upcoming patch.

Our attention to the class obviously won't stop here. Balancing MMOs is a never ending endeavor and we're in for the long haul. For example, we are certainly aware that the Marauder and Sentinel are very gameplay intensive classes with some of the most complex rotations in the game. While we are currently looking at quality of life and usability improvements to increase the class' playability without compromising the unique aspects of the class, we don't have anything specific to announce just yet. We do however anticipate that some of the combat responsiveness improvements (AKA 'ability delay' - more on that [URL=""]here[/URL]) being worked on by our engineering team will specifically aid both Marauder and Sentinel.

In regards to PvE balance, any place in the game where our data shows significant issues with the balance tuning for one or more classes or specs are of course also being looked at.

For example, Jedi Knights will be pleased to hear that we are working on tuning the final mission in their class chain to provide a better, more fun and more reliably solvable challenge (see a post from another member of my team [URL=""]here[/URL]). Currently a large percentage of players bring a friend to solve this mission, which, while social and often more fun, is not in line with our stated goal of allowing players to progress solo through their class arc if they desire to do so. We're also looking at some companions with a critical eye to improve their viability for certain role/companion combinations.

I would also like to give you some general understanding about approach to class balancing and how you can aid us with your feedback:

  • Now that we're out of the first few weeks of launch madness, you will see class and combat balance issues addressed with increased frequency. Larger scale gameplay changes and features are more likely to coincide with major content releases, but smaller scale changes and improvements can be expected to become part of our regular update schedule.

  • Statements that we hate a specific class or faction, or that we intentionally underbalance certain classes to make it less popular are conspiracy theory territory. We have nothing to gain from such an approach – we want players to pick the class and faction they want to play and have confidence that they are able to perform their chosen role in the game. Anything that comes in the way of that goal is considered a balance issue for us.

  • We make our balancing decisions based on a combination of internal and external testing and metrics. We don't make decisions based on who is the loudest on the forums. Community feedback is valuable in bringing issues to our attention and even to highlight possible solutions, which means that well written, [URL=""]constructive posts[/URL] are the most effective way to communicate your wishes and feedback to us, rather than petitions and calls to nerf specific classes.

  • Please understand that balance issues during the leveling process are different than issues at level 50 and are handled in different ways. If you feel your class has issues during your journey to 50, especially communicate the level range and area of the game where you are experiencing issues to aid our investigations. Player versus Player situations in during the leveling process are not always balanced at every level (a mathematical impossibility), but we are always willing to investigate.

  • Just because we haven't mentioned the specific issue close to your heart in a post (such as the one above) doesn't mean we are unaware of it or that we don't want to address it. It would be impractical for us to comment on all investigations currently in the pipeline. That said, we definitely want to take a more open approach in regards to upcoming class changes.

Finally, I'd like to acknowledge, again, that we do understand that there is a desire for players to get more detailed information what happens to their character in combat. We agree with those requests and are working on various ways to, optionally, get more detailed data on your combat performance.

Thanks for your feedback!

-- Georg


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Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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re: Message from Zoeller on Juggernaut/Guardian

/hijack thread

Yay!!! Combat logs!!

Nervous about what "your" means. I appreciate they don't want to allow people to use dps meters to bash people who are doing a good job, but it just doesn't show up on a dps meter. But man alive... as a healer I am dieing (literally) without a combat log to see what the heck is killing my peeps in fights! I don't care who is doing the most dps, I want to know who's hitting cc'd mobs (to identify the ability so they know to be careful with it) and what types of attacks are doing the most dmg so my team knows what to avoid/look out for.

Its so hard to learn a fight when you can't see what is doing damage to who and when! Or even learning about bosses who have invulnerabilities and whatnot. There is so much to learn from a combat log... I mean you can figure most of it out by paying close attention during the fight, but sometimes its just nice to examine a log after a wipe or two to save you from having to wipe 6 more times to FINALLY figure out what is causing the problem.

I agree, it sucks when people become dps-meter-aholics... but still, its holding the rest of us back who are honestly interested in progression.

/unhijack thread

Yay Juggernauts! :D

ProjectAlice - Merc BH Healer
Osirous - Ass Inq Tank
Hammer Six

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Joined: 23 Aug 2009
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re: Message from Zoeller on Juggernaut/Guardian

Thank GOD!

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